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Fire command and leadership conversations for B Shifters and beyond (all shifts welcome)!
B Shifter
Strategic Shift in Vancouver, Washington
This episode features Josh Blum and John Vance.
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This episode was recorded remotely on June 3, 2024.
Welcome, welcome to the B Shifter podcast. You've got John Vance here today, along with Josh Bloom, and we are bringing you incident audio today which we are happy to always share with our blue card users Always share with our Blue Card users. You know there's a lot of times people have assumptions about what the system is really all about and how it's used and the practical application of Blue Card, and this will give you a really good idea, whether you're a Blue Card user or you want to use this for training on how a particular radio traffic goes, and in this instance it's going to be a defensive shift. So we'll get to that in just a moment. How are you doing, josh?
Speaker 3:I'm doing fantastic I'm doing fantastic, happy to be on here, always like using people's users, you know audio that they send in to us and kind of highlighting the work that's being done out there. One thing I just want to mention is you know, a lot, of a lot of times blue card gets like sidetracked out there by folks saying that blue card is a communications program and part of it. Obviously we're listening to radio traffic today. So people are like, well, this is what it sounds like. Well, it only sounds that way because they went through the process and used a system to make decisions, to use the eight functions of command, the strategic decision-making model, and go through that process that they then communicate what's happening. Right, I compare it to calling an audible on a football field or, you know, a sign on a baseball field or whatever it is. Somebody had to think about what the game plan is and what the play is. And then communications is just one of the eight functions of command. And I think sometimes people are like, well, this is what it sounds like. Well, it sounds that way because they have a system that they use and everybody's on the same page and the words actually, you know, mean something.
Speaker 3:Uh, so I just wanted to hit on that first, and this is. This audio is good, concise, uh, very direct. Uh, like you said, they, they, uh, they do a good job evaluating some critical fire ground factors and then they end up making a strategic shift based off of some critical fire ground factors, and what changed you know throughout, throughout the event. So we're bringing you this audio from Vancouver fire department. They shared it with us, I don't know, a few months ago, probably now, and and we wanted to highlight this, and it's always good to talk about the process and strategic shift and how does that sound and how does that go along with everything else initial rate reports and follow-up reports and giving an assignment and following the order model of the process and the system that they used and that they've trained you know, all the people in their system to use a system and to follow a process. It's not just about communications.
Speaker 2:All right, so let's go to the Vancouver Washington Fire Department for this strategic shift.
Speaker 4:Engine 6 has arrived to a medium single-story commercial building.
Speaker 1:We have a working fire with flames showing from the roof, engine 6 will be on the line. We'll be in the offensive strategy Continue the assignment Engine 6 will be 9th Street Command Continue the assignment Engine 6 will be 9th Street Command.
Speaker 4:Copy that Engine 6 with a medium single-story commercial building flames through the roof 20-45.
Speaker 1:Command. Engine 6, level 1 on a hydrant Engine 8 is level 1 on a hydrant Engine 8, can you use a water supply Engine 8, water supply Squad 6, roger Squad 6, rough Squad 6, command I want you guys to park out of the way. Squad 6, copy line off. Engine 6 for exterior fire control.
Speaker 4:Squad 6, copy pull line off Engine 6 for exterior fire control Off 51, command. Go ahead 360 is complete. It appears we've got a chimney fire that's worked its way into the attic. Engine 6 will be out, the side Engine 6, below half tank. Last unit. Can you repeat? Engine 6, bob, we're ready for water from the hydrant. Go ahead, send the water. Engine 8, we're ready for water from the hydrant.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, send the water.
Speaker 4:Engine, eight hydrant. Send it, send it slow. We got a few twigs with the churns laying in in here.
Speaker 1:Battalion two has arrived.
Speaker 4:Command battalion two. Go ahead. Battalion two. I copy You've done a 360. Looks like they had a chimney fire. That's now through the roof. You've got Engine 8 getting water supply to Engine 6, and you have the squad doing exterior fire control. Is that correct? Can I get a CAN report? Yeah, that's a firm grip. It still looks clear inside, chief. We just got the fire showing through the roof here. No need, though.
Speaker 1:Copy.
Speaker 4:Battalion 2 will be assuming evergreen command. We're going to remain in the offensive strategy and continue the assignment Hydrant. Go ahead and send water, Send water, Water coming and units responding to the fire.
Speaker 1:We've moved the supply line out of the way you do have access to command Copy Truck 10, don't see what Jake From Pump 6.
Speaker 4:We got water coming.
Speaker 1:Hey command Truck 10.
Speaker 4:Copy Truck 10. Make your way back into Follow the supply line in Park on the Bravo side of the building. Position for possible Elevated Master stream Truck 10.
Speaker 1:Copy Park on the Bravo side Setting up for Eleoaded Master Engine 10 is level 1 on 9th of the hider.
Speaker 4:Last unit, level 1. Who are you.
Speaker 1:Engine 10. Engine 10 is level 1.
Speaker 4:Copy Engine 10,. Go ahead and make your way into the scene and park out of the way. I'm going to assign you to Alpha Division.
Speaker 1:Engine 10, copy. We're going to be parking on 9th, making our way on foot. Alpha Division. Command truck 5 is arriving.
Speaker 4:Copy Truck 5,. Stand by All units on scene. We're going to be establishing Alpha Division. Training 2 will be Alpha Division. He's going to have Engine 6, squad 6, truck 10, and Engine 10. Training 2, you copy your Alpha Division and your units. Training 2 copies Alpha Division Division. Can you repeat the units you have Engine 6, squad 6, engine 10, and Truck 10. Alpha Division copies Engine 6, squad 6, engine 10, and Truck 10. Command Engine 8,. Data change water supply complete Command engine 8, data change water supply complete Copy Engine 8,. Did you lay in a supply line or did you use engine 6's 5-inch?
Speaker 4:We have a supply line the engine 6, and we're ready for re-assignment. Copy Engine 8,. I want you to secure your own water supply and position as a possible pumping engine for truck 10. Command this is Engine 8. We've got a supply line behind us. We're going to be out of position to pump that elevator master. Command received Engine 8,.
Speaker 4:park where you are then Come on and go on deck on the alpha side. Engine 8 received and priority traffic. We got a partial roof collapse on the alpha delta corner Copy. We have a roof collapse on the alpha delta corner Copy. We have a roof collapse on the alpha delta corner. Break Alpha Division command. Go for alpha. Yeah, we have units reporting a roof collapse. I'm going to recommend we switch to a defensive strategy. Alpha copy. I'm with the crews. I have engine six backing away from the structure. I agree, let's move to defensive Command. Engine 10, we're still on 9th Street. We could grab a second hydrant. If you want us to bring in another supply line Copy Sounds good. Engine 10, bring in a second supply line for Engine 10. All units stand by for emergency tones. Command is Evergreen. Command all units. We're going to be switching to a defensive strategy.
Speaker 2:I don't think we have any units interior, but all interior units exit the structure and report a par upon exit, a lot of stuff going on on the front end of this one.
Speaker 3:Let's start at the beginning. Josh, yeah, so good, size up by engine six, identified critical factors, let everybody know what was going on, talked about the incident action plan, what they were actually doing, how they were setting up. You know the event, uh, clearly, you know, going through that first new company officer's mind, uh, he had the size up plus three, you know going on, because he was able to give assignments, you know, relatively quickly, uh, based on what his incident action plan was, based on the critical factors that he had evaluated and communicated to everybody that was going into the incident. So, coming into this, he says there's fire through the roof and it looks like there might've been a chimney on fire. So it paints that picture right away of where's that focal point of the fire. What's? What's the problem? Where is the problem?
Speaker 3:So all those other arriving companies and the battalion arriving, you know, got a pretty decent idea of what's going on, um, so they give a. They give an assignment, um, to a couple of other companies about getting the water supply. The assignment to squad six, a really good task, location, objective. So they told squad six get a hand line, uh, from where and what they wanted them to do. And then, uh, so they use task location objective and they followed the order model. So it's just painting a good picture. So, uh, so that when the battalion got there, it was a smooth rundown of the companies that were working, verifying position and function, and then the battalion being able to transfer command so that they were actually in command of an event, not just that they were there and now I'm in charge, they come back. They gave a 360 prior to the command transfer. Some more specific information on, yeah, confirming it looks like it started around the chimney or got out of the chimney and that there's fire under the roof and that we have, you know, flames, you know, coming through the roof. So, you know, I think all of that's good.
Speaker 3:And again, I'm going to focus back around to the system. Right, it starts out, you know, really well, and typically when an incident starts out well and we paint a good picture, we evaluate the problem and use the strategic decision making model and deploy an incident action plan that lines up and fits uh, strategy. Usually the incident goes pretty well. Right, the front end kind of ends up looking like the back end and because they set this so well up in the front end. You know, it was just a smooth transition all the way through assigning the work, all the way through to the point when they said priority traffic from Engine 8, we got a partial roof collapse.
Speaker 3:You know, command wasn't surprised by it. It didn't seem like anybody else was kind of surprised by it. Surprised by it it was probably being forecasted. But they were going to do everything that they could to save whatever property that they could, to get into this space, if need be, to complete the objectives that would have needed to be completed. So I think when we jump to the process of going defensive, though only one company had really been assigned and was working inside the building, they were working for Alpha. So Command didn't talk to that company about it. Command talked to Alpha and said Alpha, I just want to make sure that you concur that we're going to change strategies here. We've got a partial roof collapse and Alpha comes back and says yeah, I've got engine six that was working, I've got my eyes on them, they're out and that nobody else was inside that space. So even though there wasn't an evacuation going to happen, they still went through the process of changing strategy so that everybody knows right.
Speaker 3:So that emergency alert tone. We always talk about it. That means shut up right, that B-do, B-do, B-do emergency traffic. The strategic IC uses that to get folks on the firegrounds attention. Typically we're either changing strategy or there's an emergency slash mayday on the fireground that I want to let everybody know. So in this case, emergency alert tones came back. Evergreen command. We're going to be going defensive. Everybody give a par when they're out of the building.
Speaker 3:And then we stopped the audio there. And how it started is how this audio plays out. There was 15 more minutes of traffic that they'd sent to us about them setting up for this defensive operation. And the defensive operation went well because the incident commander set up the event not for one incident action plan but had a plan B. So had a truck get into position on the Bravo side and set up for an elevator master stream because the incident commander was forecasting that this might go that direction. And then, you know, follow that up with having engine 10, bring a water supply to that truck that was on the Bravo side to support their operation, you know.
Speaker 3:As for defensive, so again, this is this is great communications. Uh, there's no screaming. You can follow exactly what was going on. You could paint a picture of the event. Um, you could. You could probably write well. You could write down the task, location and objective of every company that went level one stage. Probably write well, you could write down the task, location and objective of every company that went level one stage. So, uh, everybody was on the same page. When it comes to you know that single incident action plan, If I could track it here, you know, two months later, then it'd be pretty easy to track there If you work with that fire department and you know how you operate and who's responding to the incident and and you're going to get to see the actual building.
Speaker 3:So I kind of jumped over the alpha piece of that. Command did a good job assigning alpha and it could have been confusing of a company got assigned to that you're going to be in, you're going to work for alpha before alpha was actually in place. But that was a forecasting piece, right, Because the next transmission was command to all units. Training two is going to be alpha and the rundown of units that is going to work for training two. So in their system training chief, training captain, whoever it is that responded there that's going to work as a division boss in that area gives them engine six, squad six, engine 10, truck 10, all working for Alpha, and then that person that was assigned to that comes back and says I'm clear, I'm going to be Alpha. Can you give me a rundown of those units again? So, just verified, who do they actually have? So that's important for an accountability piece, that when Alpha gets into place that they know who they have, who's working for them in that geographic area. And depending on how you manage tags and passports, that you know they would swing by whatever apparatus where they started collecting their accountability components and pick up those tags you know for those units in that geographic area.
Speaker 3:So the other part of that communications piece is command telling alpha who's working. There is those companies here. Okay, now I'm working for alpha. So if there's going to be communications they're going to communicate back to alpha, they're not going to communicate to command. So all in all, this is just another really good example of people using the system and the part where we hear it is, you know, command function, five communications, just one of the eight functions of command, Not that it's less or more important than any of the rest of them, but again, blue card is more, so much more than communications program it's, it's all of the rest of that process, All of those functions of command. Command.
Speaker 2:Function five communications is just where it's acted out, where we let everybody know and where we're calling that play so that everybody's on the same page intent and I think when the IC clearly speaks and you can understand what the incident action plan is, people on the fire ground, when you're thinking company officers, can follow along. So when he called engine eight to get the water supply and engine eight was out of position for the water supply, engine 10 began to get themselves in a position to get the water supply, then was able to call command and say, hey, we're on a hydrant. If you want us to bring in the water supply to truck 10, we can, which the IC had them do, so they were on the same page. I think that's just one small example in this incident where everyone was on the same page and even those incoming units were too.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I heard a lot of times we talk about transit time. You get assigned into a division or you get assigned into a function. Then it takes you a while to get there, particularly if you're in a larger commercial complex like this. One sounded like it was and one of the companies. They were going to level one stage, leave their apparatus where it was, but they advised like we're walking up, so that so everyone knew there was going to be a little transit time for them to get there. So alpha knew when to expect them that they're. They're actually coming from an apparatus that is level one stage. And those emergency tones do you believe those emergency tones were initiated or do you know if they were initiated by the IC?
Speaker 3:from their radio. Yeah, I don't know in this case, if it went, if dispatch just heard that and did that, or if they run it right from, you know, their mobile radio, which is a pretty common thing in a lot of areas. So when you don't have that dispatcher that engages, you know, on the fire ground channel with you right away, you can, you know, on the fire ground channel with you right away, you can, you know, follow the process for your Motorola radio or whatever kind of radio you use, and set those tones off, which accomplishes really the same thing. It's just, you know, not as powerful of a radio or system than if it was coming from dispatch, but really, in this case it accomplished, you know, accomplished what they wanted to accomplish.
Speaker 2:It was the okay, everybody shut up. We're doing something different here. It sounded to me like it was initiated by the IC and the reason I pointed out is when we're doing classes especially dispatch centers that are new to Blue Card we have people say that our dispatch center will not participate in this or they're not going to be on the ball to drop those tones. And we bring that up all the time. You can reprogram your radio to actually have the emergency tones so you can drop it right from the buggy instead of having to wait for dispatch or if dispatch just doesn't have the capability to do that for one reason or another. It sounds to me and I'm just guessing that the IC initiated those tones and I think that's a good example of how that would sound. And in a lot of ways we want the powerful radio, the base station radio, to have those tones, but it really cuts out a whole other clicks worth of radio traffic where you're calling dispatch and asking for it when you're just able to drop those tones. So I thought that was a very good example of that.
Speaker 2:If people have an incident that you would like to share with us, you can send them to Josh or I and we'd love to share it with the Blue Card listeners. People get a lot out of them and once again shows that this is such a universal program that you can be in Vancouver, washington, and I feel pretty confident that if I was dropped in there, I'd be able to operate with them and know exactly what they were saying. You know it wouldn't. It's not a foreign language to me. Like you hear so often, when people don't have command training available to them, yeah, I like, I like on all these, given credit where credit's due.
Speaker 3:So I mean they're doing great work there. And though Engine 8 had a lot going on and was talking about their water supply, when Engine 8 went ahead and threw in their priority traffic, because that means something in our system. Right, it's not the urge and it's not the whatever. You know, when somebody says priority traffic, usually it's a red flag of some sort and it's important. So everybody shuts up on the radio. Red flag of some sort and it's important. So everybody shuts up on the radio and it's a, it's a way for the task level to, to you know, get priority on the radio as well, as long as everybody's using the system. So I think it's another good example where you know that company officer threw in the priority traffic like, okay, this is important. Everybody needs to hear this.
Speaker 2:All right. Thanks again to the Vancouver Washington fire department. Hear this All right. Thanks again to the Vancouver Washington Fire Department. Great radio traffic and thanks for sending that in and sharing with all the B-Shifter listeners. It is now time for a Timeless Tactical Truth. Timeless Tactical Truth from Alan Brunicini If you don't have anything to do, don't do anything. There can be an inclination to always be doing something, anything, and a lot of times you end up doing something dumb. I think the boss there very clearly calling out times when we're on the fire ground and we talk about firefighters if you them, because we're action oriented, and if you give us the opportunity to do something, we're going to do it. How do we prevent somebody from doing something on the fire ground they should not be doing? And then maybe we can relate this too to non-fire ground activities. But let's start on the fire ground, josh.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you know, in our system you only are going to do work when you get assigned to do work. So it starts with level one, staging. So companies go level one and you know, I like to clear up the level one thing. People are like, oh, they're sitting there doing nothing, it's taking forever and I mean the audio that we just listened to right those companies level one. Well, they got an assignment right away. Right, their wheels probably never quit turning. It was just making sure that there was an assignment coming from the IC of what needs to happen to support that IC's incident action plan. Not I'm just going to get there and do whatever I want.
Speaker 3:And you know, over the last 30 years there's plenty of incidents that, john, you and I went to and we probably participated in some sort of activity that we shouldn't have, or we did something that we shouldn't have because we're action-oriented, we want to do something, we're problem solvers. You see, something that needs to be done. Maybe you communicate that like that this is important and that this needs to be accomplished, whether it's face-to-face, if there's a division boss there, or if it has to be over the radio. Maybe over the radio, but showing up to a building on fire with 30 people and 30 people running inside of a 1,500 square foot house isn't solving anything. And all of us, throughout our careers, have turned around and said, like what are you doing in here? Right, and you, you, you go to buildings on fire and it's like we, we do dumb stuff, one that's you know doesn't need to be done and it may be as hazardous for us, but then to you know the whole you know, mrs Smith thing, beyond taking care of of the people and making sure that they're out and making sure that their pets are out, you know, when we talk about their stuff pills, pictures, you know all the stuff from the customer service book like, what does Mrs Smith really care about?
Speaker 3:I can think of numerous occasions where we did stupid shit uh, attic on fire and we pulled 10 times as much ceiling as we really needed to pull for you know a fire. That was, you know, 10 by 20 in an attic space and and and then do some of the things that we, that we should have done, and we did it just because we're in here and we're going to do something right, and from the outside perspective, it's like we always want to creep. You know there's a little fire burning right inside of a window, but they've already knocked it down. The next thing, you know we're through the window and it's like what are we really doing here? And in that case, you know you're just not following within, you're not working within that incident action plan. So we have one incident commander for a reason, and then if you assign a division boss or whatever, then they're responsible for the work that's gonna happen in that area. So it's okay to be on deck, it's okay to be the next one.
Speaker 3:We talk so much about how deep is your bench? So it's not one cycle, right? I mean good fires. We can say good fires, you have good fires of, you know, 35 or 45 minutes. We're going to be back at the station eating dinner tonight. Right, you got, you got a fire, did some work and now we're're back.
Speaker 3:But we have to think about that whole thing of having that next level, having that on-deck company. What is the importance of that role and what do they need to do? And there's only so much work to be done anyway. So don't make it up.
Speaker 3:And we can think about big city places and it's like a, a house on fire and there's 50 people standing in the street because either they already did their assignment, their one assignment that they're assigned to do, or there's no, just no work for them to do, right? So, yeah, sometimes the best thing that we can do is, you know, to do nothing. And I think by saying doing nothing doesn't mean that we're going to go over in the corner and bullshit and tell stories. I think doing nothing is having that mindset of OK, I'm not doing nothing at the moment, but mentally I'm thinking through what might need to happen or what could I have to do, right, not, not, not engaging in the event. So, yeah, it's easy for us to get there and say we're just going to do, we're just going to do something because I'm here and I feel like I have to do something.
Speaker 2:Or the worst thing was when we would all freelance on the scene is you'd start doing something and then there was another company that would all freelance on the scene is you'd start doing something and then there was another company that wasn't assigned on the radio that would walk up and like, no, we're doing that. And I, I despise the duplication of efforts, you know, because it's just not a very good use of of manpower and we don't see that when people are going to command and getting those assignments and not just freelancing because it feels good or you know good intentions, good intentions are just that, their intentions. So when you, when you slow down and actually get the order to do something, or you bring it up to your officer and I like what you just said, josh, with thinking ahead, like hey, these are the next few things that are going to have to happen that's the challenge for everybody on the fire ground Think ahead, don't necessarily do, but think ahead so you're prepared to do those items when they come up and they get assigned to you. All right, josh, thanks for being on today and sharing that audio with us. Again, if you would like to share the audio, send it in to us at Bshifter. Look at the show notes. We have all the information there.
Speaker 2:Don't forget the 2024 Blue Card Hazard Zone Conference is coming up in Sharonville, cincinnati, ohio. We start on September 30th. We do have the May Day Workshop that is full, but we do have a CERT lab that is open and the general conference on October 3rd and 4th. You can sign up right now if you get in with early bird pricing. So we are doing this in June. The early bird pricing is still in effect until mid-July, so get in there and get signed up to attend the conference in Cincinnati. We are looking so forward to seeing everybody. We want everybody who wants to go to have the opportunity to go. So take advantage of that early bird pricing. Josh, until next time. Thanks so much for joining us on B-Shifter.